Welcome back to our fire chat session 第二期，and we have Lily back with us again. 上一期我們介紹了Lily，這一期我們聊一聊職場(chǎng)。 #Marketing # MarTech #Career #國(guó)外 ＃職場(chǎng) ＃市場(chǎng)學(xué) ＃營(yíng)銷科技 格子：So,你一直是受著西方的教育，how do you identify yourself，as a Chinese or as an Australian? It’s an important one and hard to tackle because I would’ve imagined how you’ll be carrying this through into your adulthood and of course into the workplace? Li：我其實(shí)一直沒(méi)覺(jué)得我必須把自己設(shè)定為一個(gè)“中國(guó)人”還是“澳洲人”用我現(xiàn)在的成熟度來(lái)講我認(rèn)為我是中國(guó)人既是澳洲人。 雖然從小就受西方的教育，我的思維和邏輯的確是西方的一套，但是我在家里還是和家人說(shuō)著中文，去理解中國(guó)人的一套思維方式。起碼在習(xí)慣上，還是有些挺根深蒂固的東西 比如：中國(guó)人教育自己的孩子需要節(jié)約，如何理財(cái)，尊敬長(zhǎng)輩，幫助家人等等，如果別人幫助你，你也得幫助別人。I mean we were far away from our relatives but we try to stay close where possible. 格子：On identity, let’s hold that thought, 我想知道，你是原本走專業(yè)音樂(lè)路線的又是什么讓你改變了主意，從了商科？ Li：其實(shí)我的父親在這方面影響了我不少。 他也是一位專業(yè)搞音樂(lè)的，但是后來(lái)他去從了商，當(dāng)時(shí)我也有幫助過(guò)他做一些簡(jiǎn)單的 marketing, creating brochures, I guess I got a bit of a taste for it and what that path may look like。 格子：Why Marketing then? Li：我像其他外國(guó)人同學(xué)，覺(jué)得市場(chǎng)經(jīng)濟(jì)比較有意思，不算文科不算理科（但是很多課目都參和進(jìn)去了）所以我個(gè)人認(rèn)為給了我足夠的空間去發(fā)揮。 我覺(jué)得也給了我足夠的創(chuàng)造空間。 Marketing now is not what it used to be.其實(shí)我那時(shí)候“意識(shí)”到Internet Marketing 也是差不多馬騰華他們開(kāi)啟了騰訊的時(shí)候。Yeah so back in 1998。當(dāng)我真正步入了 Internet Marketing 是十年后了。 格子：Would you share with us how you started this journey of yours? And how far you’ve come? Li：Gosh where do I start? 在我大學(xué)最后一年還沒(méi)結(jié)束，我就開(kāi)始找工作了， 想趕在畢業(yè)之前有點(diǎn)經(jīng)驗(yàn)，這樣畢業(yè)后能有多一些選擇。 我當(dāng)時(shí)也沒(méi)有好好去策劃，我就報(bào)紙上找了一份工。誰(shuí)曉得當(dāng)時(shí)這是一匹新型 Marketing, at the time it was called affiliate marketing. 就是把website traffic, 客戶運(yùn)去你“所謂”感興趣的網(wǎng)站啊，一般都是一些消費(fèi)網(wǎng)站。 然后我們公司是中間人收commission. 這也就是等于你送去幾個(gè)人可能給你幾毛美元，但是這是一個(gè)量。 It's a quantity game, not quality. 其實(shí)看看現(xiàn)在網(wǎng)絡(luò)上的display ad 類似pay per click, whereas affiliate marketing back then was a bunch of pop-ups and it re-directs you to another site. 格子: So we would’ve been on the opposite ends, I hate ads full stop. Li: Right so you can imagine this model doesn’t last and governance was needed, and the ethics of it was highly frowned upon. 格子:說(shuō)說(shuō)你的第一份正式工？因?yàn)槲抑滥憬?jīng)歷，在10年里你選擇了有十家公司？What were you thinking then? Li: Yeah it’s always hard to get your first job and getting it right isn’t going to be easy, because you don’t have a benchmark to go with. Unless you have some good advice. I was lucky enough to have met the founder of a traditional agency. The traditional agency is defined as, outdoor media, television and radio. They usually have a production team with creatives, they usually come up with the ideas and copy. The rest of the team will execute it. In a traditional agency model, you also have a very large accounts team. They manage relationships with clients. 格子: uh huh. Like Mad man. Li: So he recommended I should try and work at an agency. And there I was I still remember calling up one of the agencies and the head of HR told me there’s literally no availability for interns. But she did mention, ring back in 6 months time. I didn’t give up, and I did ring her back in 6 months time, telling her during the last 6 months what I’ve achieved and how I have advanced. I’m more keen than ever to join the agency. She actually remembered me and luckily they had a tough assignment that needs solving which involves marketing and engaging different demographics Online. Back then you'd be surprised not many people are familiar with Youtube, online forums, and my previous experience came in handy. That’s how I got my foot in the door. 格子:I’m going to probe a little deeper, 你覺(jué)得當(dāng)時(shí)agency的環(huán)境是怎樣的？ 畢竟這些大廣告公司白人占大多數(shù)。How did you fit it? Or rather not fit in? Li:何止占大多數(shù)， 這家大廣告公司可以從300人到-400人員工 忙起來(lái)到800多人。當(dāng)時(shí)就我一個(gè)亞洲人，說(shuō)沒(méi)有壓力是不太可能的。 I think I never had the urge to always having to fit in. Fitting in means you’ll have to be compliant, you may have to take a side which you do not believe in. And condone some of the behaviours which you disagree with. Whether it was consciously or unconsciously I was learning quickly, much of it was listening, and trying to make a difference where I can, for that I think people will respect that. These days the Americans call it, bring your authentic self, how I see it was doing the right thing for the clients and the company. 格子:看著你的經(jīng)歷，你從這家大公司 幾個(gè)月里面跳了三家 為何？ Li: I think for a graduate having just graduated not so long ago and got her first official job, it would’ve been hard to decide when to move on. 我的中國(guó)人的意識(shí)，警告著我就是好不容易進(jìn)了這么大的廣告公司好好干上幾年？ 和同事們打好關(guān)系，再一步步升。 No, it doesn’t work like that, and certainly at the time things are beginning to change, you start see a shift from traditional media to more online medium. 所以當(dāng)時(shí)我是隨著項(xiàng)目的去向來(lái)選擇接下來(lái)一步，自己的去向的。And now, the technology is moving so fast, practitioners like ourselves are trying to stay afloat, we’re moving at such a rapid pace, I’m seeing people in my industry which is Media & advertising and Marketing Technology sectors tend to move every 2-3 years. Unlike the generations before us, 這工作一呆就能呆個(gè) 8年到十五年。 格子:Again, looking back at your journey, you left the advertising agency and went to an Email Marketing agency? Must’ve been quite a shift? Li:我還是挺幸運(yùn)的在廣告公司里能從不同的項(xiàng)目里學(xué)習(xí)到不一樣的skills. 比如當(dāng)時(shí)我接觸到制作網(wǎng)頁(yè)啊，到摸索一些后臺(tái)平臺(tái)等，所以后來(lái)轉(zhuǎn)去做郵件商務(wù)marketing 并不覺(jué)得它很奇怪／陌生的領(lǐng)域。 雖然我當(dāng)時(shí)從來(lái)都沒(méi)有接觸過(guò)這塊領(lǐng)域。從我高傲的問(wèn)道“啊原來(lái)還有人再使用／看郵件啊？ ，你看到現(xiàn)在我都花了8年多的時(shí)間在這番領(lǐng)域里”但是也在這8年里見(jiàn)過(guò)不少這方面的科技平臺(tái)。 格子：Yeah I mean I shouldn’t be amazed by the fact you’d evolved quickly and moved from being an Account team person into building new business units for some of the world’s top 10 Marketing Technology companies. How did you nagivate this landscape? Li:Through perseverance, and hard work (but everyone would know that) There is no set formula in doing this, and looking back, there’s no winning just learning and giving back what you’ve learnt. It’s a constant thing. And not afraid of being who you are and what you believe in. Which means you will be faced with challenges which you’ve never seen or dealt with before but when faced with it, don’t shy away from it, and do it with dignity/humanity. 格子：Which I want to bring us back to talk a little more about identity - How do you find your identity amongst all these changes? Li: To me identity isn’t one thing, it evolves as we or I evolves and changes. We may be given a set of identities when we were born, then a family we were raised in (who, give or take provides the first flux of what makes of our identity) then through educations and peers we grow. Through experience hopefully we better ourselves and the people around us. If you could give advice to upcoming marketers, what would it be? - Take on the hard challenges or the difficult projects, they are the most interesting and hopefully you would’ve enjoyed the process at the end of it. - Don’t be afraid to challenge the norm, but make sure you back it up with facts! - Make lots of notes! You never know when it might come handy one day my 10c piece: - One of the most valuable lessons of my life is to view uncertainty as an opportunity rather than a liability. 謝大家的收聽(tīng)。如果你對(duì)訪談里那方面感興趣又或者更想深入了解的話，歡迎你回復(fù)。 Ps. By Dignity, Lily actually means “humanity” (?_?)